.:Interview with Jarosław Kaczyński:.

Welcome. 

Today I've translated for You an interview with the very radical  leader of the Law and Justice (PiS) and Polish ex-PM - Jarosław Kaczyński. In this interview, taken from Polish daily Fakt, Kaczyński  shares his controversial views on Smoleńsk's plane crash and involvement of PM Tusk in it. 

But, more importantly, he talks very frankly about how he managed to hide the news about his brother's, the late Polish President Lech Kaczyński, death from his mother and what he gave his brother for his last journey.

Enjoy.

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Translation: Krystian Iwaniuk, 

Original Text: M. Kazikiewicz/ J.  Sulikowski

JAROSŁAW KACZYŃSKI: "I think about my brother hundred times a day."

Do you really think that Prime Minister Tusk is hiding the truth about Smoleńsk tragedy? What interest would he have in parleying with Russia?

That’s a question to Donald Tusk, not me. I’ve pondered on it myself. His behaviour is really astounding. This man should leave political scene for good. Nevertheless, it will be possible to answer why did he act as he did just after the change in power in Poland. After all we have experienced the greatest post-WWII tragedy as states the resolution passed by the Polish Parliament and the Senate. Every government should be tough in such circumstances.

But would this tough approach to Russia – talking about the plane crash as an attempt, and about the artificial fog above the Smoleńsk airport – induced the Russians to reveal all the materials?

First 20 pages of Polish comments to the Interstate Aviation Committee’s  report concern documents, which we have not yet received, and questions which have not been answered. Where are the post-mortem protocols? Were Polish specialists allowed to examine the plane’s wreck? Why is the wreck still in Russia? I was told that after the crash what was left of Tupolev were 40 tons of wreckage, whilst regular one weights 70 tons – this also should be explained.

What if you had been the PM on 10 April 2010?

This tragedy would not have taken place. We would not allow to divide the commemoration’s group – President and PM fly together, and Polish country appropriately secures the whole visit.

Although those steps, the crash happens anyway. What would you do?

I would immediately fly to Smoleńsk, few hours earlier than Tusk did. I would firmly ask to transport the bodies to Poland, and not to Moscow, as well as the plane’s wreck. I would not agree on the Chicago Convention, which concerns civil aviation, and this was a military flight. There is a Polish-Russian agreement on aviation from 1993 on which I would have based my actions. It’s about Polish President, Polish people.

Do you believe that Russia would agree on all this demands right away?

The announcement of the arrivals of the world’s biggest countries leaders to the funeral of President Kaczyński was like saying Russian that the world does not wish deaths of the most important people of any country to happen on the territory of Russia. We could take advantage of that situation – Russia was in a difficult situation at that time. Of course it is a strong country, although - considering the role of China and changing situation on the world market - is becoming weaker and needs connections in Europe. If they had a clear conscience they would have to give in.

Now you are suggesting that Russians are deliberately complicating the whole case, but during yesteryear presidential elections in your address you have called them friends.

I do not regret this. I wasn’t addressing Russian elites – I was talking to common people, who sympathized with us, and who were worth addressing.

Kaczyński's address

Will you go to Smoleńsk again?

I don’t feel such a need now. But I remember that when I was there on 10 April, my friend phoned me and said: “Take Lech [Kaczyński] from this damned land.” There is something in what he said – it is a damned, cursed land. That’s why I would like to have all those Polish cemeteries from the East brought back to Poland, so that the bodies of murdered in Mednoye or Smolensk rest in our land. I would like to build a great mausoleum, something monumental, a place where national memory would be built. However, this is a task for architects, not me.

Should your brother also rest there?

Wawel is the most honourable place for him. My brother during his short, but rich life did so much for Poland that he earned the right to rest there. However, the truth about him as the president and politician was one of the most distorted and falsified truths ever. Unfortunately, nowadays it still happens even to me or the Law and Justice (PiS), like in the case of unreliability in presenting us by TVN. I’m not talking about criticism here but extreme unreliability and falsehood. If this situation will continue, we will have to cope without this channel. However, a question raises here - whether information channel will cope without politicians of the largest opposition party in Poland, which is supported by one-third of Poles.

Have you taken your mother to Wawel?

She wasn’t even on Powązki Cemetery, to visit the symbolic tomb. She’s too ill. But I visit Wawel very often – I’ve been there several times. And then early in the morning or in the evening, when tourists are gone, there is a mass offered in the undergrounds. Maybe, when I grow older I will have problems with getting there, but it can’t be helped. It was our responsibility to bury with due respect the first genuine President of post-1989 Poland – educated, without any vague moments in his life, without any dubious properties, and above all, who seriously defended the reason of state.

For 2 months time you had not told your mother that her son died. How did you manage to hide it for so long?

I was in a hospital, where my mother was admitted, just 40 minutes after I learned about my brother’s death. Doctors advised me that due to her condition I should  protect her from this shocking news. Mom was in a room with 5 other patients, and fortunately we’ve managed to shelter her from receiving this news. It helped. It was a blessing in disguise that my mother was a little dazed because of her illness. And also my task was easier because mom took me for Lech. She has never, during our lives, mistaken me and my brother, she even distinguished our voices. Only due to her illness she started to have problems with it. I took care of every detail so that she wouldn’t become suspicious. When I visited her in the hospital I took off my black tie and blazer and changed them into other, with different colours – I had several sets of clothing for change. Moreover, we had to isolate my mom from the radio and television.

And she never got any clue that something is wrong?

When after 3 weeks her health improved I made up a story about Lech’s trip to South America. I told her that he is out of range there, and I have to go to the Presidential Palace to talk with him via satellite phone. This story was credible because this trip was actually planned. So I spun a tale about Lech’s visiting another countries – Peru, Argentina… But even this story had to reach an end one time. That’s why with the head of the hospital we’d come up with the continuation of this story, and the volcanic ash helped us with it. Lech can’t fly back to Poland so he sails back. I’ve even found a specific harbour, and I told that brother has to sail to Mexico first. I described the voyage, that there was not enough passenger cabins, so that they had to be shared among several people, and that this situation caused the outbreak of arguments on the ship.

You have made up even such details?

It cost me a lot – there were moments that I really wanted to believe in those stories, that Lech is alive, myself.

Nevertheless, you had to tell your mother about the plane crash finally…

Only I could do this. She was completely shaken, her condition has deteriorated. They had to give her tranquillizers, which eventually thwarted effects of the rehabilitation. Few weeks earlier my mother was completely paralysed, she couldn’t even move a finger. Rehabilitation was what really helped her. But after telling her about Lech’s death her condition deteriorated, and there was no improvement for a long time.

How now looks Kaczyński’s family house in the Żoliborz district [of Warsaw]?

A lot is left after my brother – ties, or even his lucky elephant figurines. Above my bed hangs his photo, a normal one, taken on one of the conferences. There are dozens of his personal belongings placed everywhere because it was his home too.

12 years old Lech and Jarosław in a movie The Two Who Stole the Moon (1962)

Does time heal the wounds?

I’ve lost my twin-brother – you need to have one in order to understand what kind of loss it is.

I don’t believe that time, at least for a person in my age, means anything, that it can heal the wounds. Maybe if I was 30 years younger, but now…

But you are smiling when you’re talking about Lech.

It’s because I think about my brother a hundred times a day. You can say that I don’t forget about him for a second, because this is the thing that will be in me till the end, for sure.

Will you write a book about him?

I’d prefer somebody to write his academic biography. I will write just a brief outline of his life, because [Lech’s life] is unknown to people in many respects. For instance, does anybody remember that my brother was twice proposed by the Democratic Union (UD) for Prime Minister during the time when the Democratic Left Alliance (SLD) and the Polish People’s Party (PSL) ruled?

You have mementos of your brother, but did you give him something for his last journey?

I left in Lech’s coffin two, very personal, things…